Jump to content


Re-thinking Act III (The Father, the Brother, The Mother and TP/P)


  • Please log in to reply
11 replies to this topic

#1 ZeppelinDT

ZeppelinDT

    The Tank

  • Mod
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,068 posts
  • Gender:m
  • Location:Long Island
  • Interests:Getting rid of bombs

Posted 29 September 2016 - 03:32 PM

I just posted this to the subreddit, but I want to drop it here to get your thoughts.

[Note: While I have heard some Story Time spoilers, nothing in this speculation comes from any of those spoilers. This is all pure speculation... the closest I have to any sort of "official" sourcing for any of this is one person on the subreddit who mentioned in passing that the Act I graphic novel "suggests" that TP/P is Hunter's father]

So I've been spending some time browsing some threads and re-thinking the story, and I saw somebody say on here (I don't remember exactly where) that the graphic novel might imply that TP/P is actually Hunter's father. At first I wasn't sure, but the more I think about this, the more sense it makes. The way I'm picturing it now is that Hunter is the son of TP/P and Ms. Terri, the Brother is the son of TP/P and a different ex-prostitute from The Dime, and "The Father" in Act III is referring to TP/P, not some other new character. Here are some of the things that led me to this:
  • The beginning of the "Gloria" video clearly shows Ms. Terri sewing the tan armband. The Brother is shown to have a red armband. The two armbands are similar, but have important differences (e.g., different color, different tree design, stars, etc...). To me this suggests that the two armbands were made by the two mothers, and that they are similar women, but they are not identical. This also explains why Hunter would be drawn back to the other mother as a surrogate for Ms. Terri.
  • There's a line in "Father" that says "I knew there was a reason I kept this". The conventional thinking seems to be that this was a reference to the poison bottle, but what if it's a reference to the red armband? The red armband is something unique to the Brother, and it serves as an identifying feature of The Brother in the Gloria video, so it would make perfect sense for Hunter to have kept it, as it would make it that much easier to steal the Brother's identity and to pass himself off as The Brother.
  • TP/P is a Priest, so it's not that far fetched to think of him being referred to as "Father". (In fact, the "Congregation" explicitly refers to him as "Father" [... "won't you tend your flock and save us now?"]
  • Other lines from "Father" include "And what of the Father, will he analyze?" and "Don't worry about The Father, you'll take care of him". Conventional wisdom is that this is Hunter hatching his plan to kill the Father, but what if it's just foreshadowing for what will happen? In Act IV, TP/P does in fact "analyze" and discovers Hunter's secret, but Hunter then "takes care of him" by making a deal with him (and then, presumably, by ultimately killing him). The latter line also says "YOU'LL" take care of him, rather than "I'LL" take care of him, suggesting to me that it's more of a foreshadowing of the future than it is Hunter planning something himself.
  • There is nobody credited as "The Father" in the Gloria video. There's only The Brother and The General. It's entirely possible that The General is just a General, and is not related to either of them.
  • This theory would necessarily redefine the way we think about HSHHAS, but imo, it still works well as being the reveal to Hunter where he finds out his mother was a prostitute. It would kind of be a stretch anyway if the meaning was "Hunter finds out his mother was a prostitute and had sex with lots of men; Hunter meets a man who had sex with him mother; Therefore the man is his father".
Remaining hole: The one thing that I can't fit in with this theory is the relevance of the poison bottle. If it isn't used to kill the "Father" character, then I'm not sure where it fits in (although "Poison" and "venom" seem to be a recurring motif, so maybe it just has a more metaphorical reason, especially given that, in the video for What It Means to Be Alone, Hunter puts the bottle into his bag, but then his bag (including the bottle) is stolen by the Thief).
"Hi, I'm a recovering crackhead, and this is my retarded sister I take care of. I'd like some welfare please."

#2 whatwasyourname

whatwasyourname

    Introducing of Ms. Terri

  • Regulars
  • Pip
  • 117 posts
  • Gender:m
  • Location:Columbus, OH
  • Interests:meteorology, YuGiOh, drumming, forgetfulness

Posted 29 September 2016 - 05:32 PM

This is good speculation, but before the videos came out I'm pretty sure there wasn't really any talk of armbands...Pretty sure the armband thing is just an audience convenience (i.e. they're there literally to symbolize who the character is supposed to be at a given point in the video).

Also, Hunter [in the lyrics] looks just like the Son, who is fathered by...well, the Father. It's only logical that they're brothers, or in some way, related.


Although that Black Sandy Beaches reprise during Father does have me thinking maybe there's more to this...only just a bit though...


I think you're just overthinking it, but with these albums, anything is possible...



#3 ZeppelinDT

ZeppelinDT

    The Tank

  • Mod
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,068 posts
  • Gender:m
  • Location:Long Island
  • Interests:Getting rid of bombs

Posted 29 September 2016 - 06:32 PM

View Postwhatwasyourname, on 29 September 2016 - 05:32 PM, said:

This is good speculation, but before the videos came out I'm pretty sure there wasn't really any talk of armbands...Pretty sure the armband thing is just an audience convenience (i.e. they're there literally to symbolize who the character is supposed to be at a given point in the video).

There was a version of it in the video for "What It Means to Be Alone". When The Boy meets the Thief he says "Have you seen a camp with this symbol?" and then shows him the tree symbol on his upper arm/shoulder. It's not exactly the same, but it at least suggests the idea has been floating around for a while.

View Postwhatwasyourname, on 29 September 2016 - 05:32 PM, said:

Also, Hunter [in the lyrics] looks just like the Son, who is fathered by...well, the Father. It's only logical that they're brothers, or in some way, related.

I agree. I do think they're related. I'm saying that TP/P could be the father of BOTH of them. I don't know that there's any real lyrical evidence that there's actually a new character anywhere in Act III called "The Father". I think the song "The Father" could thoughts about TP/P back in the City, rather than referencing a specific Act III character.

Certainly not saying I'm sure it's correct... just a possibility.
"Hi, I'm a recovering crackhead, and this is my retarded sister I take care of. I'd like some welfare please."

#4 Captain

Captain

    Maybe we're just never meant to know why

  • Regulars
  • PipPip
  • 257 posts
  • Gender:m
  • Location:Connectonnecticut
  • Interests:Doing stuff poorly but having fun doing it

Posted 29 September 2016 - 08:09 PM

I think this is a super interesting idea. I haven't read the Act I book yet so I can't attest to how heavily it might or might not be suggested there. The only hesitation I can think of off the top of my head is that it would seem strange to me that The Boy would never refer to this revelation in Act IV or V. And while there is mention of poison in V for sure, I'm not sure that it is intended to be the literal poison from Act III. If he didn't poison a character named The Father at the end of Act III, what would the Boy have 'kept', and for what 'reason'?

Also lyrically, I'd find it a bit odd that The Boy would make mention of both The Mother and The Father in the same distant manner (as in, not saying your mother and our father) if he already knew he had interacted with his father (P&P) so frequently beforehand.
I will not be a parasite.

#5 ZeppelinDT

ZeppelinDT

    The Tank

  • Mod
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,068 posts
  • Gender:m
  • Location:Long Island
  • Interests:Getting rid of bombs

Posted 29 September 2016 - 08:27 PM

View PostCaptain, on 29 September 2016 - 08:09 PM, said:

I think this is a super interesting idea. I haven't read the Act I book yet so I can't attest to how heavily it might or might not be suggested there.

Somebody on Reddit elaborated a bit in response to my post. Apparently TP/P gives Ms. Terri a necklace, which she later gives to the Boy, and when he asks where it came from, she said "Your father". Some think she might have been lying. Apparently all the women at the Dime had a similar necklace"


View PostCaptain, on 29 September 2016 - 08:09 PM, said:

The only hesitation I can think of off the top of my head is that it would seem strange to me that The Boy would never refer to this revelation in Act IV or V.

I'm not sure he knows. I think it's reasonable to believe that the Boy is unaware that TP/P is his father or that the Brother is his brother.

View PostCaptain, on 29 September 2016 - 08:09 PM, said:

And while there is mention of poison in V for sure, I'm not sure that it is intended to be the literal poison from Act III.

I don't think it's the literal poison either. I was just saying that "poison"/"venom" is a motif, so it might just be separate examples of this motif. The ultimate fate of the bottle of poison is the one big thing I can't figure out under my new theory though... I think it's the biggest hole.

View PostCaptain, on 29 September 2016 - 08:09 PM, said:

If he didn't poison a character named The Father at the end of Act III, what would the Boy have 'kept', and for what 'reason'?

I think it could have been the armband (or some other unique identifying feature of the Brother). If you re-read my second bullet point I expand on it a bit more there.

View PostCaptain, on 29 September 2016 - 08:09 PM, said:

Also lyrically, I'd find it a bit odd that The Boy would make mention of both The Mother and The Father in the same distant manner (as in, not saying your mother and our father) if he already knew he had interacted with his father (P&P) so frequently beforehand.

I don't think he's using the word "Father" as in "My biological father". I think he's using it as a title, because he is a priest, and he's worried that if he goes back using a different identity, the Priest/Father will find him out (i.e., it could just as easily be "What of the Priest, will he analyze?")
"Hi, I'm a recovering crackhead, and this is my retarded sister I take care of. I'd like some welfare please."

#6 Grizzly Bear Arcade

Grizzly Bear Arcade

    Awoke Alone

  • Regulars
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,275 posts
  • Gender:m
  • Location:Ida fuckin Ho
  • Interests:Fuckin' shit and stuff.

Posted 29 September 2016 - 09:05 PM

For some reason I was always under the impression that the poison was used to kill the Son and steal his identity. I had always wondered if the father was also killed or if he would be resurfacing latr on, so this theory does make some sense to me.

Also, I remember at one point Casey had said that the thief gave the boy something very important and I don't recall ever finding out what that was. That could have been what Hunter knew he should keep for a reason.

And this isn't relating to the topic at hand, but did we ever find out what the answer to the Act III riddle was?
The night keeps looking our way.

#7 Alyson

Alyson

    Introducing of Ms. Terri

  • Regulars
  • Pip
  • 84 posts
  • Gender:f
  • Location:Pittsburgh
  • Interests:Reading, horror movies, wrasslin', cats, Guy Fieri

Posted 30 September 2016 - 07:55 AM

View PostGrizzly Bear Arcade, on 29 September 2016 - 09:05 PM, said:

And this isn't relating to the topic at hand, but did we ever find out what the answer to the Act III riddle was?

I have this on my list of questions to ask Casey at story time tomorrow.

#8 ZeppelinDT

ZeppelinDT

    The Tank

  • Mod
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,068 posts
  • Gender:m
  • Location:Long Island
  • Interests:Getting rid of bombs

Posted 30 September 2016 - 10:42 AM

Welp.... Somebody just reminded me that the "Father" postcard from Act III visibly shows The Boy using the poison on The Father, so I guess everything I just said is wrong. D'oh!
"Hi, I'm a recovering crackhead, and this is my retarded sister I take care of. I'd like some welfare please."

#9 whatwasyourname

whatwasyourname

    Introducing of Ms. Terri

  • Regulars
  • Pip
  • 117 posts
  • Gender:m
  • Location:Columbus, OH
  • Interests:meteorology, YuGiOh, drumming, forgetfulness

Posted 30 September 2016 - 12:19 PM

Yeah, and it's a really old man. He looks important, too. I went back just now and looked...

#10 Sigafoos

Sigafoos

    SIGGITYFIGGITYFIGGITYFOOS

  • Admin
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,767 posts
  • Gender:no thanks
  • Location:Buffalo, NY
  • Interests:fnord

Posted 06 October 2016 - 06:46 AM

View PostZeppelinDT, on 30 September 2016 - 10:42 AM, said:

Welp.... Somebody just reminded me that the "Father" postcard from Act III visibly shows The Boy using the poison on The Father, so I guess everything I just said is wrong. D'oh!

I knew you kept those postcards for a reason.

I hope to set an example. You know, for children and stuff.


#11 Severus and Stone

Severus and Stone

    A Common Whore At The Dime

  • Regulars
  • Pip
  • 58 posts
  • Gender:m
  • Location:Harrisonburg, Virginia
  • Interests:Playing and listening to alternative/indie music, watching awesome television, and playing atmospheric video games.

Posted 06 October 2016 - 11:11 AM

Yeah... those postcards are pretty definitive. Loved the idea though!

#12 Snakenole

Snakenole

    Introducing of Ms. Terri

  • Regulars
  • Pip
  • 128 posts
  • Gender:m

Posted 10 October 2016 - 03:10 PM

What is the Act III riddle?




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users